Data-Dog, thanks for the notes on the Circut Assembly. My wife and daughter are at a two day this weekend and I appreciate learning what tactics the WTBTS is using so I can do my best to neutralize the damage as much as possible. Also so I don't do anything for the next few weeks that reminds them not to listen to me. It is like walking a tightrope. Ugggggh.
Indian Larry
JoinedPosts by Indian Larry
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Circuit Assembly Highlights. Day 1
by DATA-DOG inwell things were actually pretty boring.
i mean really boring.
that's the price of fading i guess.
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Indian Larry
@RayPublisher - Yes it is a live person not a computer voice.
I do respect the copyright as well. I have actually ordered two hard copies off of Amazon just so that Cynthia does get her share of the funds. I am not really pro pirate bay execept in cases like this when there is no other option. The brother that took the time to read these books into his recording equipment did a good job and it is a benefit to anyone that hears it. I have posted on this before and on that post I did make sure to encourage those who download to also buy a hard copy to help out Cynthia.
For me it is not because I am blind that I like the audio format, it is because I like to listen when I am in the car. For many of us who still have spouses that are "in" that may be the only time you can really focus on a book like ISOCF. Another added bonus is all you need to do is rename the file and you will never get accidentally "found out"
I had a book entitled "questions to ask JW's", trying to stay under the radar I put the dust cover of another book over that one. My wife found it. Now she does not trust any question I ask her. Better to stay waaaaaay under the radar if you are trying to get a loved one out.
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Indian Larry
@oppostate - Sorry about the wrong link. This link is for the audio of both Crisis of Conscience and In Search of Christian Freedom.
http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/7011688/RAYMOND.FRANZ.AUDIOBOOK.COLLECTION.(ENG).m4b.iPod
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Does anybody remember the CO by the name of Pedro Hines?
by Indian Larry inhe served the congregation i used to attend in the early '80's.
he was a piece of work.
he started the service meeting with this gem:.
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Indian Larry
He served the congregation I used to attend in the early '80's. He was a piece of work.
He started the service meeting with this gem:
"this congregation is full of filth. The holy spirit is gone from this congregation"
you could have heard a pin drop. Then he proceeded to talk until 9:35 (back then the meeting should have concluded at 9:10) when he was done he just skipped the song and said "Let us pray". Was it just us or was he some kind of designated hitter for the WTS?
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Indian Larry
RayPublisher> It is not just sitting on his hard drive. Apparently he uploaded it to Pirate Bay. I have downloaded it to my iPhone and I have really enjoyed being able to listen to it. Fantastic book!
http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/4664154/Crisis_of_Conscience_-_Raymond_V._Franz_[2004]
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JW beliefs that are clearly not based on scripture
by JimmyPage inmustaches are okay, but beards are not.
suits and dresses are the only acceptable forms of clothing for worship.. .
how many times is the term "governing body" found in bible?
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Indian Larry
They believe that Jesus was "resurrected" as a spirit. I do not believe this is biblical. Christ himself said that he was flesh and bones. If he was a spirit at that time then he was lying. Since he perfectly reflects God and God can not lie then I have to believe he was resurected.
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Suicide - How many do you know within the JWs
by Lady Lee inthw wts likes to play games with their statistics.
one interesting but truly tragic is the number of jwhovah's witnesses who commit suicie.. now i suspect that if a person commits suicide shortly before or after they are disfellowshipped then the elders would say that person wasn't a witness or that they had done something so terrible that they were too guilty to admit it and by their action of committing suicide they pretty much declared they were no longer a jw.. yup fancy talk to make sure any crap didn't fall on them.. so my question.. do you know of cases like this?
if so then can you answer a few more questions.. had this person been dfed or in real danger of being dfed or whatever the equivalent is if they were never baptized?.
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Indian Larry
I know of at least 5. One was my best friend as a child, and the other was the mother of one of my closest friends now. He called me when he looked through the window and saw her body inside. I came and helped open the door. She cut her wrists. She also left a rambling note about the "truth".
Very sad. They broke down this way
3 teenage males
1 early 30's male (fighting against homosexuality - great guy a real loss)
1 mid 40's female with 3 children
I know of another serious attempt by a sister who came very very close to dying after refusing a transfusion. Two years later she took 70 Xanex.
Sad.
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Help add to the list of things that convinced you Jehovah's Witnesses beliefs are flawed, that Governing Body are hypercritical, and deceiving >>>
by Butterflyleia85 insources to your claim will help with proof.... thanks.
these are a few i looked up and is just a rough note taking list so i didn't edit it and it's just done by basic looking through alot of articles and posts i've see:.
malawi-mexico contradiction... when a lot of the jehovah's witnesses were tortured and killed because the governing body forbade them to buy a card whereas the mexicans were allowed too.the real reason for the "donation arrangement"... property the wts owns in brooklyn heights alone would generate almost $10,000,000 (yes, ten million) in tax money each year for the city of new york-- that is if they had to pay taxes on it.
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Indian Larry
The WTS say that the elders are appointed by Holy Spirit, yet there is proof that certain elders were pedophiles WHEN they were appointed. Did the HS appoint them? I don't think so.
Another thing that bothers me is the constant self aggrandisement that the GB prints in almost every WT.
Faithful and Discreet? That is a joke.
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Does 2Thes 2:1-3 prove some of the disciples gave "false prophecies"?
by booker-t ini have mentioned a few times on this board that my jw's brother just will not let it go with me and continues to prove to me that jesus disciples and other prophets in the bible have given "false" prophecies" or "wrong expectations" concerning the end of the world.
he feels that jw's should not be condemned for their many false predictions.
as always the first thing he will tell me is that "jw's admit to their mistakes therefore we are not false prophets.
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Indian Larry
You might try to help him see your viewpoint this way by helping him to understand that he Watchtower had no other choice but to admit their “mistake”. When you predict that the end will come in 1925 and it does not happen, what other choice do you have? You must admit you were wrong. Rutherford admitted after this debacle that he “made and ass of himself”.
The problem is he did not just make himself look bad. He brought ridicule and dishonor on God’s name. Here are some of the predictions he made just about 1925:
1922 "This chronology is not of man, but of God. Being of divine origin and
divinely corroborated, present-truth chronology stands in a class by itself,
absolutely and unqualifiedly correct...." (Watchtower, July 15, 1922 p. 217)
1923 "Our thought is, that 1925 is definitely settled by the Scriptures. As to
Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had
upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge." (Watchtower, p. 106, March 1, 1923)
1924 "The year 1925 is a date definitely and clearly marked in Scriptures, even
more clearly than that of 1914. (Watchtower 1924, p. 211)
Then by 1925 he starts hedging his bets by blaming Satan for what he previously said was “of God”
1925 "It is to be expected that Satan will try to inject into the minds of the
consecrated, the thought that 1925 should see an end to the work." (Watchtower,
Sept. 1925, p. 262)
In the scripture in question Paul was warning about this very thing. He said
“not to be quickly shaken from YOUR reason nor to be excited either through an inspired expression or through a verbal message or through a letter as though from us, to the effect that the day of Jehovah is here.”
Paul here is warning that there will be people who claim to be apostles (or who claim to speak for God) that will give “inspired expressions” or “verbal messages” that would say that “the day of Jehovah is here”. This is EXACTLY what the society has been doing.
Ask your brother to explain Deuteronomy 18:22. Let him know you are not simply being argumentative but that you sincerely feel that the society is guilty of exactly what is described here. The fact that they admit they were wrong means nothing at all. They had no choice but to admit it.
You could also ask him what he thinks about this quote from Awake!
"True, there have been those in times past who predicted an "end" to the world, even announcing a specific date. Yet nothing happened. The 'end' did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing? Missing from such people were God's truths and the evidence that He was using and guiding them.'' (Awake, Oct. 8, 1968)
You could also draw a comparison between Rutherford and Harold Camping. I think any Witness would admit that camping is a false prophet, if they admit that then how can they justify following Rutherford who was just as much of a false prophet as Camping.
If you really want to help him see TTATT you have to ask questions and teach him to really think. Most Witnesses have a good surface knowledge of “proof scriptures”. You have to go beyond that and get him to learn how to think. That is the hard part. I remember reading somewhere once a comparison between question marks and hooks. Use those hooks to good effect and you might have a 1 in 1000 chance of getting through to him.
If you argue a point and come across as bitter or angry to the WTS then you chances drop to 1 in a million. Help him to know you are sincere, you have sincere questions. Let him try to move you by feeling he is helping you. He has to come to his own conclusions, and even when he does there is no guarantee he will act on them. The cost for disagreeing with the WTS is very very high and only the strongest are willing to accept that price.
Good luck.
PS. The question about Jesus being a false prophet - I believe the transfiguration is how that is explained by the WTS. That is the only explanation I know of. -
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share your reaction after reading CoC and ISoCF
by suavojr inafter reading coc and isocf i cried, i was in shock, disillusioned, angry, and afraid... anyone wants to share their experience?.
i would like to see what you think about these questions when compared with your account.. why people from different backgrounds feel similar reactions?
(cannot be a conpiracy).
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Indian Larry
insearch> That is interesting about Isaiah 37 and 2nd Kings 9. What is the WT explanation for the duplication?